Ari Kaplan recently spoke with Lynn Tubalinal, the director of litigation support at Dykema, and Julia Voss, the director of litigation support and e-discovery at UB Greensfelder.

Both are among the industry leaders who contributed to the recently published report Advancing Litigation Support to Fuel Growth in a Changing Legal Market, supported by Opus 2.

They discussed the effect of the increasing volume and variety of data, how a team knows that it is time to upgrade its technology, successful strategies for driving adoption, and effective generative artificial intelligence use cases.

Ari Kaplan: Tell us about your background and your current role.

Lynn Tubalinal: I started my career as a paralegal and leveraged my technical background into a litigation support role. I began to lead teams at Sidley Austin, where I spent eight years, and three and a half years ago, I moved to Dykema.

Julia Voss: I am an antitrust litigator turned e-discovery professional. Twenty years ago, I had one of the more significant cases in the firm, while the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure were changing. I was tasked with figuring it out and then started teaching my peers about those developments. So in 2014, when the firm decided that a lawyer should lead litigation support, they asked me to move into that role. I have been the director of litigation support and e-discovery for 11 years.

Ari Kaplan: Did anything in the Advancing Litigation Support to Fuel Growth in a Changing Legal Market report surprise you?

Lynn Tubalinal: What is really surprising to me, and it’s not necessarily related to the content overall, is that we are all going through the same issues and figuring this out as we go. In these roles, you tend to feel like you’re on an island and don’t hear about what everyone else is experiencing until you begin talking to them. In this fast-paced industry, we don’t always get to speak to one another and connect. Through these reports, I could relate to the perspectives of my peers and identify strategies that could work for us internally and as an industry.

Ari Kaplan: One theme in the report was the increasing volume and variety of data. What effect do you expect this trend to have?

Julia Voss: The growing data volumes are driving more litigators to realize they need a technical solution to manage their dockets. When they had small cases with a few hundred documents, they could manage, but that is no longer possible. The variety of data is the most complex issue today because many different data sources are available. Every day it seems as if there’s a new app or an update to the phone or Microsoft. Litigation support professionals are constantly chasing updates and developing new methods for collecting data. There was a time when we felt like we knew e-discovery because we could effectively collect emails. Then Teams came along, followed by Slack and then WhatsApp, and now, it feels like a never-ending cycle of chasing the newest app.

Ari Kaplan: What advice would you offer to others who are managing these changes?

Lynn Tubalinal: Don’t get overwhelmed. We are all going through this at the same time. Identify what works best for your team. Meet with your peers, and discuss specific issues, like processing unique data types and learn which solutions you can offer to the case team. It is typically not a single solution. You may need different applications for some instances, such as those with modern attachments. We focus on understanding the case team’s challenges to help develop a holistic strategy, rather than solely provide technical support. They are our internal clients, and we need to help them communicate more effectively with the firm’s external clients. It can really be easy to get overwhelmed because there are many different data types, and you will not be the expert on everything, but rely on those who are the experts and get information from them.

Ari Kaplan: Outdated technology, specifically case management, was another theme in the Advancing Litigation Support to Fuel Growth in a Changing Legal Market report. How do you know when it’s time to explore a new solution, and what are your tips for others as they select new applications?

Julia Voss: You start to realize it might be time to look at a new solution when people aren’t using the one you have or there is better technology that can provide more support. Focus on listening to the people around you to understand their evolving needs better. The hardest part of exploring a new solution is finding people with time to test the options and help determine the best way to move forward, especially with all the technology available due to developments in generative AI. With many things changing at once, you need a group of people who understand what your technology is doing and what a new product could improve.

Ari Kaplan: Does outdated technology contribute to a lack of adoption?

Lynn Tubalinal: Litigation support teams must always balance the use of outdated technology with the cost of moving to a newer, faster and better solution. Getting teams to buy into that upgrade can be a challenge. As technologists, we are enthusiastic about improving our tools, but cost, adoption and other variables factor into the ultimate decision to change.

Ari Kaplan: What strategies have been successful in encouraging adoption in your firm?

Julia Voss: Presenting the attorneys with the benefits instead of highlighting features alone is essential. The most effective strategy is to begin with a small team that pilots the application and presents the results to influence adoption. Once users see results, they are more likely to take advantage of the new tool.

Ari Kaplan: Generative AI has been and will continue to be a hot topic. How are you using AI in your firm, and what have you learned from your experiences so far?

Lynn Tubalinal: There are different types of AI, not just generative AI, and we have been utilizing more traditional AI in our workflows for years. We just purchased a generative AI component for our e-discovery document review platform and are excited to deploy it. I’m trying to identify my champions, who can use it in their matters and provide honest feedback. Most lawyers want to see results, rather than the nuts and bolts of how the technology works. Based on the impressions of generative AI that I have heard, everybody’s waiting to see what others are doing. Nobody wants to be behind the curve, and we want to adopt it, but we’re cautiously treading into the arena.

Julia Voss: We have also been using different kinds of AI for a long time, but generative AI is the obvious new shiny toy. We had been testing generative AI in our document review platform for a few months and are starting to expand access to grow adoption. For resources and training, we need to persuade the professionals on our team to allocate the time to update their skills using generative AI products, so that the great people we have can continue to help the legal teams move forward.

Ari Kaplan: What is your team doing in 2025 to maintain its competitive edge?

Lynn Tubalinal: Ensuring that the talent that we have can utilize our full suite of tools and be our champions. Education and marketing are paramount. I spent much of 2024 marketing my team because not everyone fully understands what we do. My team is just trying to get the work done but may not necessarily know how to market the team while they are supporting others. I have been working on that internally by encouraging more direct support, such as a phone call over an email or Teams chat. We are moving back to basics to better showcase our talent and capabilities.

Julia Voss: What didn’t surprise me about this report is that we’re all trying to do some of the same things. We are internally rebranding our group as the data intelligence team. We are showcasing the skills of our technologists and e-discovery counsel to raise their profile and highlight where they can provide support, so the trial teams can focus on the merits of their cases.

Listen to the complete interview at Reinventing Professionals.

Ari Kaplan regularly interviews leaders in the legal industry and in the broader professional services community to share perspective, highlight transformative change and introduce new technology at his blog and on iTunes.

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This column reflects the opinions of the author and not necessarily the views of the ABA Journal—or the American Bar Association.

I don’t know about you, but I didn’t have a law school class on networking, business development or client service. Even during my time as a law firm associate, training on these professional skills was informal (at best) but mostly observational as I listened on speakerphone or sat quietly at a client lunch while the partner carried the conversations. There was no structured training in these essential business skills.

But we all know that having a professional network is essential to doing almost any job (especially when you are a general counsel). It is impossible for any one lawyer to know all areas of the law that might come across your desk.

At best, in-house lawyers are astute issue spotters. I tell clients that my expertise is “an inch deep and a mile wide.” I do not have the luxury of being expert in many areas. Surely, I have subject matter expertise in a few, but for the most part, my job as a chief legal officer is air traffic control: seeing the plane and routing it to the correct runway—to someone I know will know the answer.

After years of struggling to overcome the need to know everything, I finally relax when I say: “I’m not sure, but let me look into it and get back to you.”

So how does a busy general counsel know where to route the incoming planes? Basically, you have to know people. The “N-word”—networking—which often makes people recoil, is table stakes for any in-house role.

Networking conjures thoughts of being in a crowded cocktail party, awkwardly scanning the room for anyone we might have a remote connection with, business cards burning a hole in our pockets. But having a network or connections, as I prefer to think of it, is essential to your job as air traffic control. You have to know who to call. So how do you build a network outside those uncomfortable cocktail parties?

I used to have a playbook for that. Before the COVID-19 pandemic, I had a personal rule that became an expectation for my legal team: three networking contacts each week. Not three awkward cocktail parties; rather, three touch points with clients, colleagues or others—a phone call, a coffee date or a conference. And if you attended an event, I expected folks to return with at least three business cards of people they met.

Then in 2020, I moved my family from Los Angeles, where I had spent my entire legal career, to Santa Barbara, California, where my husband and I had long yearned to land after many years wine tasting in the lovely Santa Ynez Valley.

Painfully beautiful, relaxed and yet cosmopolitan, it attracts international visitors, celebrities and even royalty. But we moved during the pandemic, and I struggled to find other professionals outside my company. Everyone wears flip-flops here—how do you spot the lawyers?

What does one do when there are no conferences, and restaurants are shut down and no one wants to meet in person for fear of catching a deadly virus? Like more than 80 million people worldwide, I listen to podcasts. They are a window into many worlds or learning and connection. After recording a podcast interview for the Portia Project with M.C. Sungaila, I was struck at how we had formed a deep connection after only a brief conversation.

This feeling stuck with me for months, and I reached out to her to ask how she had gotten started. This led to several months of research, interviewing production companies, listening to podcasts about creating a podcast, reading articles and reviews of podcast equipment, and plenty of soul searching.

In my interviews with producers, they all asked me the same question: “Why do you want to start a podcast?” This question struck me as odd—why did they care why I wanted to start a podcast? Didn’t they just want to sell me production services? Why did they care about my “why”? Well, it turns out that the “why” matters. If you’re trying to sell something, promote yourself or align with a brand, a company or anything else, the podcast should be designed intentionally.

After many months of research and reflection, I honed my “why” to three words: learn, connect and grow. First, I wanted to learn from others—about technical legal issues but also about legal operations and professional development. How could I become the best general counsel I can be?

Second, I was hungry for connection (see above). After three years of social distance, I wanted desperately to restart my “rule of three” networking approach.

Finally, I wanted growth. I’ve learned that I am someone who craves progress. By connecting with others and learning from their experience, I was sure that I would continue to grow personally and professionally. And I wanted to share this with others.

As I round the bend on the first season of The Legal Department podcast and reflect on the 20 episodes that we’ve produced, I am grateful that I was pushed to find the “why.” That’s how I know what I want the audience to get out of each show.

The Legal Department podcast is a show for lawyers who want to learn, connect and grow their career. It features conversations with legal executives, professional development experts and other thought leaders who share real world advice to help in-house lawyers level up. I hope you’ll check it out.

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Stacy Bratcher is senior vice president and chief legal officer of a health system in California. She spent most of her career as an in-house attorney and thinks that having a professional network is key to success in-house. She is the host and creator of The Legal Department podcast, which is available on Apple, Spotify or almost anywhere you find podcasts. For more information, go to LegalDepartmentPod.com.

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ABAJournal.com is accepting queries for original, thoughtful, nonpromotional articles and commentary by unpaid contributors to run in the Your Voice section. Details and submission guidelines are posted at “Your Submissions, Your Voice.”

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This column reflects the opinions of the author and not necessarily the views of the ABA Journal—or the American Bar Association.